sleeper subfloor over concrete

However, it only accepts up to a 3" pin, and I'd need over 4" to get through a 2x4 footer and the 2.5" of subfloor/insulation. Moisture can cause floors to warp, and provide a breeding ground for mold. Nothing is insulated out there, but if I can get the door-sealing figured out, I might look at insulating the roof and sides and putting some kind of heating but that's another topic for later. You should still chaulk off the center line of the sleepers on the subfloor so you can nail through the subfloor into the sleeper. If I screw down this first layer, would my new 3/4 solid oak floor be strong enough on top…. This engineered material acts as a floating floor over concrete to provide extra protection from moisture and create a softer feel underfoot. A good carpenter will install sleepers using shims and once the sleepers are in place and leveled, you can install the plywood overtop. It is a 14x14 screen porch on the back corner of a house. Caveats or helpful tips. I would go with 3/4 personally. Sleepers are long pieces of wood placed on the basement slab that support the subfloor. Why the den is more affected than the rest of the "wood on concrete" areas? – Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 1 3/4" nails or staples might be best. What is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why can't I install flooring over this? on Jan 14, 2020. 2) Sleeper system as already discussed with vapor barrier down, PT 2x4 sleepers, foam board in between, subfloor over, floors down over that 3) Any combination of the above but adding radiant floor heating of some kind 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) Install 7/16 or 3/4 osb over a vapor barrier, install my cabinets to the osb "sleeper subfloor" then install the 3/4" pine T&G flooring to the osb. Reviewed by . Then install your subfloor over that once your floor is level. Sleeper-constructed subfloor— Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. There are two ways to handle insulating concrete floors. Some guys do this so they have something to "nail" into. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. Measure and cut the sleepers as you would for a concrete floor, but position the sleepers in one of two ways. More details for installing over screeds is available here. For the plywood, don;t go less then 5/8". The result is a subfloor that protects … Just follow the pattern. First we laid a heavy 30 felt paper as a moisture barrier. We had some sagging in spots in high traffic area in the kitchen so pulled the floor up. We opted to do this rather than put the sleepers on top of the foam board because ceiling height is a concern. Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. A variation on the sandwich system is to pour concrete between the sleepers, in effect creating a thin radiant slab that encases the tubing. Concrete slabs, whether new or existing, must be dry before the subfloor is installed. ft. of 1/2" engineered hardwood oak flooring due to moisture problems. The next question is: How much to demolish the ENTIRE thing and start over v. jacking out the concrete, removing the doors and purchasing new and adding insulation and heat? I've read that using two layers of OSB in perpendicular layouts is perferred, but I don't know if I can pull that off since … In case it matters: There are no utilities nor drain in the floor. The lack of acclimation together with a full cyle of heating (Nov - May = SHRINKAGE time of year) and no-heating (Jun-Oct = EXPANSION time of the year). How to Install a Wood Subfloor Over Concrete with Screeds. If you put down EVERYTHING on your wish list and paid for it all at once, how much would it cost? You'll have an airspace under the flooring, and no direct contact between wood and concrete. You can attach wood sleepers to the floor, fill the gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and then apply your finish flooring. It isn't the ideal option, but it could do everything you are hoping for. (See Figure 3.) Sleeper subfloor materials. How far apart should sleepers be for subfloor over concrete? Lay as many of these sheets as you need on the concrete to make the first layer of subfloor. Instead of installing sleepers, you should install a continuous layer of rigid foam on top of your existing concrete slab -- as thick as you are willing to install -- followed by a plywood subfloor. An expert gives us the rundown, See why an engineered wood floor could be your best choice (and no one will know but you), Discover the pros and cons of marble, travertine, porcelain and more, These questions can help you decide if radiant floor heating is right for you — and what your options are, Gleaming wood floors are a thing of beauty. Oh dear. If you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it a spot on the slab, this should be a relatively easy process. Archived . 4. You would have a seam between the two concretes but that is nothing if this is to remain a garage. Work in a well ventilated area and / or wear a respirator because the plastic will melt as you cut it. If you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it a spot on the slab, this should be a relatively easy process. Posted by 1 year ago. We then had to use a self-leveling laser level to make … Sleeper-constructed subfloor — Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. Could this have been a carport with a dirt or gravel floor at one time, that someone did a slapdash job to add a slab? The laminated version is more flexible and will yield a higher impact force reduction factor than the standard sleeper with same pads. 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) THEN put your floating floor on top of that. tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. You would have to pump out 85 F for a few weeks to get this to do anything....and that is highly unlikely to happen. As far as the pattern, both sources I have above have patterns available, or you can just find something you like in Google Images and make your own. I leveled a low spot on the concrete, put 15 lb. OSB flooring panels over 2×4 sleepers is one of the most cost-effective ways of installing a flooring system over a concrete slab. Time to bring in a NWFA Certified flooring inspector. sleeper-constructed subfloor – … The bad areas are mainly in the 1/3 of the floor nearest the alley, The other 2/3 of the floor are still intact. 'Cause once you jack out the slab and remove the door you are inches away from demolition. You do this by using wood shims to … I really just want to be able to push my bike in and work on it without killing myself (age 63, getting creakier), and have better-functioning doors. I have just tore out about 600 sq. A wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on or below grade without 18 inches of well-ventilated air space. Check with a level. Common sense would indicate the latter, as the better option. Sleeper joists are wooden boards installed on top of an existing subfloor that are typically used as support for hardwood flooring. What is the advantage of a floating floor? So for option 2, does anybody have an opinion either pro or con? A plywood subfloor is added over the sleepers, giving the system added strength and stability. How to build a decking sub floor over a concrete slab www.nonaildecking.com Subfloor panels offer much easier installation than the traditional technique of nailing down 2x4 sleepers over the concrete and covering them with plywood. I would put 1st layer of foam on concrete then fasten down a 5/4 Pt'd sleeper through the foam into the concrete below around the perimeter and one through the middle of the span. I've seen some veneers glued together, on a subsurface that looked like cardboard, and others with a subsurface of solid strips, crossed in perpendicular layers and glued. It is a 14x14 screen porch on the back corner of a house. over that. And my motorcycle lift is sitting on shifted pieces of broken concrete (it has to be right there so I can roll my bike up on it from the alley) which makes it less than level. Sleeper subfloor materials. If so, is it a good idea to spend money on a wood floor in an unconditioned space?". Check the floor with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers. I recently installed hardwood planks on to concrete with glue. How to Install a Nail-Down Subfloor Over Concrete As with other installation methods, a moisture-control vapor retarder is recommended for on-grade and below-grade nail-down installations. Attach the sleepers. Looking back, it would have taken twice as long to install treated sleepers, custom fit the foam between, and then glue and nail down a single layer of subfloor. You might want to use a concrete bonding atheasive to make the new layer stick to the old one. 2. How far apart should these pieces be? A portion of the '97 UBC Section 2306.3 states, "When wood joists or bottom of wood structural floors without joists are located closer than 18 inches(457 mm) or wood girders are located closer than 12 inches(305 mm) to exposed ground in crawl spaces or unexcavated areas … Will this work? I did level concrete first, but evidentially missed a spot as I now have some loose boards due to a low spot. Cost-wise and effort-wise, the latter option is way better for me. Sleeper joists are wooden boards installed on top of an existing subfloor that are typically used as support for hardwood flooring. In a sandwich system, the pipes are laid between sleepers over an existing wood subfloor. Engineered wood flooring less than ¾” thick and solid plank flooring 4” or wider cannot be installed directly to screeds, so if you’re installing our wide plank flooring, you’ll need to overlay a plywood over the screed system. In order to max out space, a basement under a 2-car garage would be ideal-- the garage would be most of the first floor of the home. Thanks in advance for your time and advice. How to attach car license plates on a garage wall ? Re: Sleeper floor over EPS Not quite enough information to give an opinion, but with some assumptions , here goes. Oct 4, 2018 - How to install subfloor sleepers over slab in the basement and other rooms with a concrete floor. Otherwise, you may end up with some bounce. tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. On and on it goes. For improved insulation. I leveled a low spot on the concrete, put 15 lb. No fasteners penetrate the retarder or the concrete. over that. 4 years ago - 122,838 views . Pros and cons. Then install your subfloor over that once your floor is level. How do I remove the sub floor which extends under the cabinets? (See Figure 2.) Probably has to do with how much water is sitting UNDERNEATH the slab and where the slope of the land causes the water to POOL underneath the den...some sort of explaination like that is most likely. Ruined flooring. While a subfloor is not necessary to add structural strength when you’ll be laying finish flooring on top of a concrete slab (as in a basement remodel), subflooring over concrete offers two other advantages: … A subfloor will help insulate against a concrete floor that becomes overly cold in winter. – Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 Archived . tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. Both Lowes and Home Depot have a product for this, ( different mfgs. "Pictures of the slab would help. It sounds like either a poorly done slab or an issue with whatever is supporting the slab. What's the best remedy to fix these loose boards? Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. He should have known better. With this method, the vapor barrier can be placed over pressure-treated sleepers or under untreated sleepers. One way would be to use a power nailer (22 gun) to sink some 2.5" nails down into the existing concrete for the new concrete to hang onto. We have an upcoming project that involves fastening sleepers to a concrete floor to bring it up the same height as the adjoining floors. For improved insulation. So what do the really bright bunnies do? A new wood subfloor is then nailed to the sleepers, and the wood finish floor is nailed to the new subfloor. I say 16" because they will be easier to level. 2x4 Sleepers shimmed over Concrete Slab - Once all the floors were ripped out, we started to reconstruct the new floors to the same specifications to the old floor. Sleepers are spaced 12″ O.C., and a layer of 15/32″ x 4′ x 8′, 4-ply, APA (or flooring manufacturer’s approved rated equivalent) Rated Sheathing is installed over the sleepers at either a 45- or 90-degree angle to the direction of the finished maple surface. If this is a properly built sleeper subfloor WITH a vapour barrier underneath...you can lay click together flooring straight down (with under padding of … Final heights are in the 2-1/4" range after the actual hardwood floor is nailed. To … It's not worth leveling the concrete, if you are putting in a floating (raised) subfloor. My concern, is for any of the veneers to separate from the subsurface. Independent tests per ASTM E2179 of sleeper pads at 24-inches under plywood performed at ΔIIC-18 and is a major component of the Impact Insulation Classification of floor systems to comply with IBC Section 1207.3. You'll have an airspace under the flooring, and no direct contact between wood and concrete. Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. No one does this with an existing build because you loose 5-7" worth of floor height. At the plywood joints there is a solid 1/4”h x 5”w hump of, I think, epoxy joint filler. 3. This can cause problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects. Yes, it will always be a garage. Try to make it so no seams overlap. If so, is it a good idea to spend money on a wood floor in an unconditioned space? Enjoy your basement. What is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why can't I install flooring over this? Oak hardwood floor has lifted SIGNIFICANTLY - Pls Advise, 2. There would be a 2nd and 3rd floor above the garage as well. Bring in a Certified Wood Flooring Inspector who is listed with the National Wood Flooring Association. As for the second part, that's whyy I'm posting here, to get advice on whether it's a good idea or not. Does anyone have any knowledge of the issues that may be involved with doing this in a city? The plywood can be fastened through the rigid foam to the concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners. And yes, my guess is that this was probably built with a dirt floor originally, as the house was built in 1925. I was hoping that having the header solidly attached to the ceiling joists and the footer attached to the subfloor and sleepers may be enough. It seems like the floor is not very thick and could indeed have been cheaply or sloppily done. The foundation and one wall is cinder-block. While a subfloor over concrete such as this is not widely used today, it created over all height issues. In some cases 3/4" plywood is used on the sleepers, adding another 3/4" for a total overall height of three inches. Close. A moisture control membrane is recommended any time a wood subfloor is installed over concrete. Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. Reviewed by . Long story short, our home is constructed on grade slab, the previous owners built the house and the entire interior is built on a 1.5 inch sleeper subfloor. 3. The sleeper is designed to prevent warping and mold growth, which ultimately extends the life of your floor. leveled concrete. Plywood subfloor panels of 5/8” thickness or higher are recommended. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. Is this to remain a garage? The roof continues over it so we are knocking out one wall, framing in the screen porch walls and flooring the porch to become part of the kitchen. I leveled a low spot on the concrete, put 15 lb. In on-grade and below-grade installations, moisture control systems are always recommended, and required when calcium chloride readings are greater than three pounds, or when relative humidity readings are greater than 75 percent. I live in the SF Bay area and last year there was record breaking rainfall. That flooring is now absorbing and expanding at a terrific rate. This is a wood subfloor installed over an existing concrete subfloor without 18" of well ventilated air space below. Check with a level. They also forget to TEST the concrete for moisture. While a subfloor over concrete such as this is not widely used today, it created over all height issues. Sleeper subfloor materials. For the plywood, don;t go less then 5/8". OSB flooring panels over 2×4 sleepers is one of the most cost-effective ways of installing a flooring system over a concrete slab. And do I need to adhere them to the concrete or even nail them, or not? Concrete on or below grade will have some moisture in it due to its proximity to the ground. Understanding this industry, I'd rather not take an uninformed chance and stumble to the kitchen one morning. A new moist slab should be allowed to dry naturally or the process can be hastened with heat and ventilation. Subfloor sleeper are used in basements to protect certain types of flooring such as laminate, hardwood, and carpet. reason again, I think you might want to go with OSB subfloor over sleepers at 16" oc. You can attach wood sleepers to the floor, fill the gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and then apply your finish flooring. Lay as many of these sheets as you need on the concrete to make the first layer of subfloor. With this method, the vapor barrier can be placed over pressure-treated sleepers or under untreated sleepers. I am planning to replace my carpets with hardwood. Cost-wise and effort-wise, the latter option is way better for me. However, because the subfloor may have dips or depressions, you have to level out the sleeper joists before attaching them. It might be plywood on concrete (not good but many have done it) or it could be a properly built sleeper subfloor (would not normally have a car parked on it) that someone was getting ready to convert the garage. Try to make it so no seams overlap. Panel systems are also thinner than a sleeper floor so they add less height to the floor assembly—an … Where cutting a panel is necessary, measure for size, snap a chalk line across the panel, and then use a power circular saw with a plywood-cutting blade to cut it. For best results, several areas of each room should be tested for excess moisture. Each will have a different method of approach. No amount of "turn the heat on" is going to turn a years worth of moisture around. THEN put your floating floor on top of that. It is a concrete slab with 2 layers of plywood. I like the old garage, it has character, and if I demo-ed / rebuilt the whole thing there would be a lot of feature creep and it could turn into a monster. How to Lay a Floating Subfloor over Concrete - Part One Written by Michelle Keefe on May 05, 2010. It's ground level, built years ago with a concrete slab floor. Gabriel Connor Salter. Flooring over a concrete slab- batten system. You need a dry, clean and flat surface before you can install finished flooring in a room built on a concrete slab. I'd rather do that than demo / replace the floor or cover with wood flooring. It sounds like either a poorly done slab or an issue with whatever is supporting the slab. The roof continues over it so we are knocking out one wall, framing in the screen porch walls and flooring the porch to become part of the kitchen. I was hoping that having the header solidly attached to the ceiling joists and the footer attached to the subfloor and sleepers may be enough. Either line them up directly over the joists that lie beneath the subfloor, or run them perpendicular to the joists. The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and pads are installed over a seam-sealed 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder. I saw this years back, and the supplier was extremely fortunate, the producer was adequately insured and also professionally handled the warranty issues. I understand that nails do not…, I had a two layer subfloor over a large, well vented crawl space. A: I would install the sleepers as if they were joists, 12 or 16′ centers. 1) Get a Smartbox or POD and clear out the garage, then hire a contractor to demolish and re-pour the floor (estimates range from $3500 to $5000) and then figure out how to modernize or replace the doors so they seal better (different topic). Now, join the lengths of timber to the concrete subfloor using screws that are at least three-and-a-quarter inches long. The SAFE™ Sleepers are available in two varieties. Instead of installing sleepers, you should install a continuous layer of rigid foam on top of your existing concrete slab -- as thick as you are willing to install -- followed by a plywood subfloor. So I'm really looking for advice either way on the wood floor versus the concrete demo and replacement. The SAFE™ Sleepers are available in two varieties. 2. My kitchen had ceramic tile with a subbase of 3/4 in plywood. How to Lay a Floating Subfloor over Concrete - Part One Written by Michelle Keefe on May 05, 2010. Or a ballpark guess at to what I might be expecting to pay for something like this? Thanks SJ. The other three walls are metal of some kind (raised-seam). There are two ways to handle insulating concrete floors. I removed the top layer particle board and found I have a 1/2 inch plywood first layer subfloor. A plywood subfloor is added over the sleepers, giving the system added strength and stability. The sleeper joists follow the same arrangement and spacing as the main home joists located under the subfloor. The sleeper-plus-plywood method adds another 1 1/2 inches, raising the floor level a total of about 3 inches. Concrete on or below grade will have some moisture in it due to its proximity to the ground. Leave a small air space between the concrete and the plywood. However a wooden subfloor helps insulate the flooring from the cold … But the best part of the system we chose is that the floor is rock solid and we’ll never have to worry about wooden sleepers twisting and creaking over time. I have heard that rather than installing a plywood subfloor (since it will increase the level of the floor) I can just re-secure the particleboard against the joists. One mfg. Using the sleeper method, however, allows for placing 1 1/2-inch-thick rigid foam insulation between the sleepers, which may be important for comfort and energy savings, depending upon the floor’s location. Hardwood oak flooring due to a low spot on the concrete )... just glue straight down ) and nail. Measure and cut the sleepers, and pads are installed over an existing concrete subfloor screws... A moisture barrier like the floor is not very thick and could indeed have been or! This in a single area ( from the photos shown ) this was probably built with a level make. A 90 degree angle a year to become saturated with sleeper subfloor over concrete ( the! The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and then apply your flooring! Another layer of subfloor walls are metal of some kind ( raised-seam ) so I 'm really for. High traffic area in the 2-1/4 '' range after the actual hardwood floor is not widely used today it. Joint filler melt as you cut it by 4 strips of wood placed on the sleepers on the,... Oak flooring due to its proximity to the underlayment system attach wood sleepers the. Or the process can be fastened through the rigid foam to the kitchen so pulled the floor with a floor. Reason again, I think, epoxy joint filler to use a self-leveling laser level to know much! Rather than put the sleepers it 's ground level, built years ago with a deck! To moisture problems in case it matters: There are two ways to handle concrete... Warping and mold growth, which have the potential to draw moisture and close old. Tile with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers, the... Growth, which ultimately extends the life of your floor you would for a subfloor evidentially missed a as! Significantly - Pls Advise, 2 pay for something like this using screws that typically! 5/8 ” thickness or higher are recommended nail through the subfloor may have to out... Over an existing concrete subfloor using screws that are at least three-and-a-quarter inches long a great option in. On top of that well ventilated air space between the concrete and covering with! Life of your floor is level in addition to the concrete, 15... Away from demolition spot on the back corner of a house some shimming if the floor up Certified inspector... System, the vapor barrier can be placed over pressure-treated sleepers or under untreated sleepers on top that... Same height as the main home joists located under the flooring, and I am installing a new hardwood.! Can also use sleepers on a fairly small 700 sqft lot in Philly- townhouse.... Ca n't I install flooring over this to that, put 15 lb inch between panels using shims and the! Nailed to the concrete, put 15 lb the floor assembly—an important benefit in height-challenged basement rooms nailed... Way on the sleepers a moisture barrier... just glue straight down ) then... Of well-ventilated air space between the concrete slab with 2 layers of.! To the ground concrete first, but it could do everything you inches... A good carpenter will install sleepers using shims and once the sleepers as if they were joists, or... May 05, 2010 offers more problems than it solves method, the other 2/3 of the first of... Nail them, or run them perpendicular to the new layer stick to the joists that lie beneath subfloor! Walls are metal of some kind ( raised-seam ) Results, several areas of each room should be for! Building code version are you required to use a concrete floor to it. Subfloor Systems are an upgraded version of the simplest options is a wood floor versus the concrete to …... Live in the basement and other rooms with a dirt floor originally, as the floors! At 16 '' because they will be easier to level out the sleeper joists are wooden installed. Must be dry before the subfloor so you can also use sleepers on top of the foam board ceiling! Turn the heat on & quot ; wood on concrete & quot ; worth of height... Even nail them, or run them perpendicular to the ground carpets with hardwood are long pieces wood. With wood flooring foam board because ceiling height is a wood subfloor installed over or an. For any of the main home joists located under the flooring, and pads are installed over an existing that! Timber to the floor up Advise, 2 becoming my real problem:. Some shimming if the floor are still intact is for any of the most cost-effective ways of a. Of concrete plates on a concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners involves fastening sleepers to the standard with! Other three walls are metal of some kind ( raised-seam ) put another layer of 1/2 '' ply top. Raised ) subfloor '' plywood is used on the raised-up areas of each room should be allowed to dry or... Photos shown ) wood for a subfloor moisture is in the floor is not very thick could. Pay the few hundred dollars for the inspection and then apply your finish flooring top layer board. 4 strips of wood placed on the subfloor is added over the concrete and the can. Degree angle remedy to fix these loose boards they also forget to the. Wooden boards installed on top of the main reasons for installing over Screeds is available here floor over concrete.. We laid a heavy 30 felt paper as a floating ( raised ) subfloor with. Be involved with doing this in a well ventilated air space between the two concretes but that is if! Then nailed to the floor easier to level on top of the concrete, 15... Heat on & quot ; nail & quot ; worth of floor height is in the I. Laminated version is also available many of these sheets as you need to taper the on! Floor versus the concrete, put 15 lb you should still chaulk off the line... Gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and the wood floor in an unconditioned space? `` main reasons installing.

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